Tamara Munoz-Whilden: How to Create More Time Freedom as a Booked & Busy Entrepreneur

In this interview, I speak with Tamara Munoz-Whilden. Tamara is a self-proclaimed ‘ex-corporate droid turned entrepreneur.’ She is a COO for visionary business owners as the founder of Behind the Screens, an Online Business Management & Virtual Assistance Agency.

This conversation with Tamara focuses on:

⚡️When To Consider Hiring & Outsourcing in Your Business

⚡️The Add, Delegate, Delete Exercise for Business Owners

⚡️How You Can Simplify Your Business Systems to Help Create Space

Links & Resources

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      💛 Yasmine & Team Coaches & Co.


Yasmine  0:02  

Hello everyone and welcome back to another segment in our do business better 2022 series my name is  Yasmine Salem Hamden I am your host and today I am joined by the lovely Tamara Munoz Weldon to Mara is the founder and CEO of behind the screens. She’s a self titled ex corporate droid turned entrepreneur, I can’t wait to hear about that. And she is a CEO, a chief operating officer for visionary business owners as the founder of her company behind the screens, which is an online business management and virtual assistants agencies. I’m super pumped for our chat today. Would love to hear from you, Tamara. And if you would, please share with us a bit about you your work, what you’re all


Tamara  0:49  

about. Yeah, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I’m so like you said I’m the CEO and owner of behind the screens, we support high level business owners and all things back end. So that everything administrative client concierge contracts, onboarding, off boarding all that fun stuff, to higher level stuff like online business management, team management and launching, team performance. So hiring, firing, all that not so fun stuff that we really enjoy, but not everyone does. So we really specialize on supporting people inside of the online space. Most of our clients hang out in the health and wellness space coaching, we have a lot of coaches consultants, along with a lot of wedding professionals, surprisingly,


Yasmine  1:42  

okay, it’s a huge industry. It’s massive,


Tamara  1:45  

it’s dense, the pandemic has just kind of, you know, slowed down a lot of businesses, many have survived. Yeah, so many have survived and coming back now. It’s the wedding boom. So all these businesses that were slow for about like a year and a half are just booming, because it’s all weddings from 2020, early 20s. So it’s been a lot of fun, just navigating all of that. But yeah, so other than that, I live in sunny South Florida. We and by we, I mean, my husband and I run the agency together, we have a little girl who’s almost two, and she keeps us on our toes. And I believe that Yeah, girl.


Yasmine  2:30  

I know we’re chatting before we hit record, you guys. And yeah, it’s quite an experience, let’s call it that and experience to be building a business and working with clients. And, you know, being a whole human being at the same time. And then also you have a little human.


Tamara  2:49  

Yeah, I was gonna say if you guys hear like frozen in the background, it might know, a little lamb when she gets her hands on the remote. But we live on like frozen and Cheerios. Yeah, basically like what keeps her going. It’s a lifestyle.


Yasmine  3:07  

And you shared also, before we began recording the interview that you’re in, you just mentioned that you and your husband worked together. But that is a recent thing. So you launched your your business a few years ago and began to experience growth began to all the pieces began to come together. I know you’re now supporting many entrepreneurs in your agency. And so you have a unique insight.


Tamara  3:34  

The back yeah, it’s been, it’s been so fun to see the common threads and all these different businesses. Because you would think like a health and wellness practitioner doesn’t have the same pain point as a wedding photographer, as a business consultant, or accountant. And the reality is everyone has the same pain points. It’s all the same pain points, because the pain point that we solve is business operations. And although every business is different, and we tackle it differently for everyone, depending on what they’re doing, it’s all pretty much standard. So there’s always going to be client delivery piece, there’s always going to be an onboarding piece to it and off boarding piece, there’s always going to be back end operations to handle back end tech. A lot of our clients on the full spectrum they launch launching is pretty much standard across the board. So it’s all the same, and it’s all the same pain points. And it’s because our clients want to serve their clients and their zone of genius. So whether it’s helping them with their health or their books, or their wedding, and they don’t want to handle everything on the back end, because that’s not what they’re good at. And that’s not why they went into business. When you go into business. You’re like, I can’t wait to paint for my clients every day or take photos for them every day or litigate for them every day. Not I’m so excited to sit on the back end and answer Your emails and schedule phone calls and send contracts. Like that’s not why you do it.


Yasmine  5:06  

Oh, absolutely. And we find ourselves that’s, you know, that’s a part of doing business. That’s the nature of doing business is it involves the logistics, it involves the administrative, it involves the behind the scenes, the back end of facilitating the sale of the service, or the product, the delivery of the sale, or excuse me, of the service of the product, the customer service associated with the sale of that service or product. And so, you know, I think probably most people can relate to doing it all and wearing all the hats and, you know, marketing, what you’re selling, and then actually selling it and then delivering it and then making sure that everything all there are no loose ends. And there’s a pretty bow on top of, you know, the the final product. But that can get to be and I can speak from firsthand experience that gets old really fast, and you’re on a hamster wheel and you’re trying to keep all this, the plates spinning. And you know, when you bring in a pair of helping hands that can make all the difference. Yeah, sure. You see this with your clients,


Tamara  6:22  

left and right. It happens all the time. It’s a one way ticket to burnout city when you are doing everything all the time. And entrepreneurs by nature are overachievers and perfectionists. It’s just the reason why we work for ourselves.


Yasmine: We’re a special bunch. Yeah, we really, 


I feel like no sane person that truly craves that balance would go into entrepreneurship because you eat for a 40 to 50 hour a week business to work. And basically 24 hours a day. Because even if you’re not working, you’re thinking about how to optimize something your next launch your new product, a client that you might be talking to, to upgrade them or sign them on. And it’s you’re never off. Even even when you’re relaxing on the beach, you’re thinking like, oh, I can’t wait for this launch. It’s happening two months from now, because we’re gonna serve certain people or I wonder how my team is doing. It’s you’re always on in some way, shape, or form. So it really takes a lot of passion. And I think that’s the beautiful thing about entrepreneurs, we’re just very passionate people. And we truly believe in the work that we’re doing. Because we a lot of us don’t do it for the money. I mean, there’s not a lot of money in the beginning. It’s just pure grit and passion and this hunger to truly make a difference. That keeps us in it. But with that being said, there’s like I mentioned earlier, there’s just like a common thread with everything that our clients go through. And we’ve served over 200 entrepreneurs since 2019. And the number one thing I see, I don’t know, if you want to like dive right into this now, please, let’s get into it. So like the number one, we say, yeah, the number one mistake that I see with entrepreneurs is that they don’t outsource early enough. They think that they can do things on their own for a long time, and they can, but that’s where they hit that wall of burnout, they lose their passion and lose their spark. They get lost in things, things start to fall through the cracks. And the first thing I hear from anyone who hires us, or hires that I’ve made for other clients, is I should have done this earlier. I wish I would have done this earlier. I don’t know why I didn’t do this earlier. It’s variations of the same thing. And it’s just like Damn, why did I not do this earlier. And the reason that they say this is because it’s immediate, your your nervous system calms down immediately the second that you get support. The second that you get support, you have so much taken off your plate, and this person could be coming in for like 10 hours a month, 20 hours a month, it doesn’t have. But for them, it’s 10 hours for you those tasks are probably taking close to 20 3040 hours. A because you don’t want to do it. You’re not good at doing it. You’re procrastinating on it. You are building things from the ground up. Where are these people coming in these professionals coming in already have a system for it. That’s efficient and optimized. So in reality, they’re taking you know, you’re paying for 10 hours and you’re getting back 20 3040 hours. So it’s and then those 20 3040 hours you’re making more sales have room for more clients can rest can sleep can recover from the marathon that you’ve ran. So one of the biggest things that I’ve seen in order to avoid this, not hiring early enough, is do it scared, getting very comfortable and that’s everything in entre nowship getting very comfortable with being scared about a decision and then just doing it.


Yasmine  10:05  

Find out what happens. And that’s


Tamara  10:07  

the beautiful thing with the online space, everyone is so willing to be helpful. And if you don’t think it’s for you, or you just want to test something out, it doesn’t hurt to ask for a trial month or, you know, three months trial, you don’t need to sign a six month 10 Month 33 year contract, you don’t have to do that. You can just sign a trial contract. And if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. And you tried it, and then you know that doing everything is for you. I’ve never seen that happen. But


Yasmine  10:37  

Hi, highly unlikely, highly unlikely, you are welcome to find out on your own.


Tamara  10:43  

Exactly, exactly. And the second that you feel like I don’t want to do something is the second that you should start looking for help. And exercise that I do with all of my clients. And I tell everyone that I need to do is the Add delegate, delete exercise, brain dump everything on to a Word document or a sheet of paper, if you’re a pen and paper type of person, and then go through the list and ask yourself like is this a me task? Yes, sir. Now and if it’s not a new task, then is it something that you can delegate or automate? Or my favorite delete is this just noise. It’s just noise on my so much of it is just noise. It’s always it really is, especially in the beginning, where your only focus should be sales and client delivery. And that’s all you really need to be focusing on your marketing and your sales.


Yasmine  11:38  

Everything else is extra. Yeah,


Tamara  11:41  

everything else is extra. I mean, just even for us our biggest. For my business in particular, our biggest thing is client client delivery. So our delivery, our client service, we’ve been able to build a seven figure business on just referrals. If you look at my Instagram, I haven’t updated it in like two years.


Yasmine  11:59  

Love it. It’s music to my ears is just referrals.


Tamara  12:03  

Linda, it’s been so beautiful to see. But I have clients who they focus so strongly on the marketing piece that that’s where all of our sales come in. They have a multi seven figure business based on just the front end of their business being so tight, and then the back end, we’ve tightened the delivery where now they also have referrals coming in. And that’s an other stream of revenue. So but that’s when outsourcing allows you that space and time to really tighten up all the other things. Any anything come to mind with like outsourcing. Like when was the first time that you outsource? Yeah,


Yasmine  12:38  

when was the first time that I outsource? My first hire was maybe three months into my business and it was a bookkeeper. That was like the first thing that I was and I imagined that’s probably pretty common, because I’m totally clueless when it comes to members are


Tamara  12:55  

intimidating. And like we all have a healthy fear of the IRS. So yes,


Yasmine  13:00  

yeah. So I was like, You know what, I validated my my offer my who I’m serving, I began to my marketing was working. So I was like, alright, money is coming through the door, somebody needs to be tracking this, it’s not going to be me, I had that feeling of I don’t want to do this. Because I know a lot of people that will, you know, track their own. They’ll keep their own books, you know, they’ll do all of that. And maybe it works for them. Maybe it doesn’t, but I was not even going to attempt it. I was like, Alright, I just need some help. Made that higher. And that was money well spent. That was great. That was peace of mind that freed me up that made tax time so much easier that made decision making for future hires much easier as well. And so yeah, it was I my next hire was because that was in my law practice I was on I had a law firm where I sold legal services, and it was a paralegal. It was an assistant to provide an rendering of the service. So I wasn’t quite ready for assist and also administrative things. So yeah, it was the way I look at it as there’s the marketing, there’s the SIRT the sale and the delivery. And then you know, actually delivering of the service, right so like there’s, there’s you can decide where you want to spend your time you know, and you’re welcome to spend your time and all of those departments but you can always identify and I think most people identify very strongly with one you’re very excited about rendering the service and working with the clients closely and doing that. Or maybe you’re very excited about continuing to develop the business and the marketing and and you enjoy content creation or whatever it is whatever is your jam in your business. Or maybe he really loved the sales you know and doing the sale or closing the deal. But for me, I was like alright, I really want to focus on you know, continuing to grow Bro the business and rendering the service. So I want to cut out the discovery call sales and really simplify and streamline that. So I’m not having to do that personally. And I don’t need to have somebody closing over on the phone with these clients, it can just be streamlined. And then I can focus on content creation, and also on delivering the service. But I wanted to bring someone in to provide support and delivery of the service so that we could keep it nice and tight, and make sure we had a positive client experience referrals were huge for me, too. I am a huge advocate of developing a referral network, professionally, and then also in coupling that with a stellar client experience. That is its best form of marketing on its own, which it sounds like that’s what you’ve got going on.


Tamara  15:47  

Yeah, it’s my number one belief like client retention, the lifetime value of a customer. And people pay a lot of money for our services, you know, so you want to go above and beyond you want to exceed expectations and as return, because you’re as entrepreneurs, we’re serving other entrepreneurs, it’s their livelihood, you’re supporting people and building your livelihood and the legacy for their business and their family. So it’s not something to be taken lightly like with you, your you know, your products help protect their legacy. Yes, it’s a big deal.


Yasmine  16:22  

Oh, absolutely. I have a when we first set up our email confirmations for our sales, and when those purchases come through, I set up like a, you know, the automated message where it’s just like changing lives and businesses, because it’s a great reminder of the impact that we’re capable of creating through our businesses that we’re capable of creating by leveraging our unique skill sets, by leveraging our unique passions. You know, not everybody is as passionate about what you’re passionate about. And that’s why that passion was placed within us so that you could live that out fully. And do what only you can do. Yeah, do that. So yeah, I love that for myself, and for everybody else that desires the same. So good. Yes. All right. What is number two tomorrow?


Tamara  17:12  

Yeah, so number two is something that’s so funny, because no one thinks that they do this, but it’s making everything a priority.


Yasmine  17:20  

So just add next time, because yeah, that’s me. Yep.


Tamara  17:24  

Everything’s a priority is the right now the marketing is a priority. And getting this affiliate system is a priority. And this launch is a priority. And this newsletter is a priority. What’s the priority? Your team doesn’t know where they’re going? Everything’s number one. So one of the everyone does it, everyone does it, I do it. I catch myself doing it. All of my clients. It’s a constant like coaching like, Okay, girl, like you just gave me 12 things to do, like, Let’s go one through 12 it. Yeah. So it’s going back to the focus. So I’m a big proponent of just having quarterly focuses, or even annual focuses. So everything that falls into that focus is the priority. So just to give an example, for me this year, my focus is client retention. So retention is the name of the game, that’s what we’re doing. If things don’t fall inside of the sphere of retention, they immediately get bumped off from number one. My number one priority is my client experience. Client Experience, elevating my team so that they have more skills, more resources, to then be able to provide a better client experience, be able to provide a better delivery of services. And we retain these clients and in turn, they retain their clients because we’re the ones doing the services on their back end to. And it just becomes this beautiful, like ecosystem of high level servitude to our clients that we are just here to support and love on our clients and make them feel very held in their business and safe in their business. So for this entire year, that’s been like my number one priority, pour into my team, pour into my clients into our business, elevate everything on the back end the client experience. In order to retain and retention through retention, there comes growth. Obviously, when you’re doing all of this, there is referrals coming in, but also upgrades. Beyond that, because we are a service based, it’s not a recurring revenue. So like there’s, there’s this beautiful growth that happens internally, from just serving your people and doing more for the people that are already inside of your space. So that’s my priority. Nothing else is a priority for me. So if it’s like do I jump in and help this launch so that my client makes a six figure launch? Or do I sit down and write an email to my email list? My priority right now is my client because I’m working on that retention piece and getting my team to like my level. So the email will always come second, at least for the next six months. That’s how it’s working. Yeah. That’s like the easiest way, just having like a true north and deciding like, this is where my business is going to be. So if you’re, if your priority is sales, I want to hit the six figure mark, I want to hit the seven figure mark, then you need to go all in on that front piece, that marketing and that sales cycle. So getting into that conversation closing, getting really, really good at that investing in a sales training, investing in a closer that’s, you know, something that you’re interested in, and just hyper focusing on that until that’s completely smoothed out. And then you move on to the next thing. Because if you focus on too many things at once, nothing gets done. You don’t move the needle any of them.


Yasmine  20:40  

That my friend is fats.


Tamara  20:43  

Yeah. Yeah. And I’ve been through it. I’m like, I want to do all the things. And I’m like,


Yasmine  20:47  

Yes, I need to be done. And it’s like


Tamara  20:52  

you you feel tired at the end of the day? What did I do, and it’s like nothing that moves the needle. Nothing that read so


Yasmine  21:01  

thin and your time is spread so thin, your focus has spread so thin.


Tamara  21:05  

Exactly. And the number one thing is just having like, a focus that you revisit every few months to because you can get to the point where it’s just like, oh, okay, like, I just, we tighten this up real quick, we’re fine. On to the next thing, and then you shift priorities, and you communicate the shift in priorities. But not everything can be number one, unfortunately, I wish it could, yeah, I wish I could. And once you become a bigger business, and that you have, you know, head of sales, head of client operations, Head of Marketing, then yes, everything can be a priority, because you do have a dedicated person that is handling that specific priority. But as entrepreneurs, we have three resources, we have money, we have time, and we have energy. So if you are putting in time and energy into something, you won’t be putting money into it. And if you’re putting money into something, you won’t be putting time and energy into it. So once you have the money, hire those people to take care of those priorities, and then preserve your energy and your time for other things. Yes,


Yasmine  22:10  

absolutely. Okay. I’m, I feel like I needed that conversation today. So thank you, I think that’s certainly something that as entrepreneurs across the board, regardless of what it is that you’re selling, regardless of what your your goals are, and what your intentions are for your business. You know, I think we can all agree that our shared intentions, our progress in our businesses, you know, and the enemy of progress is distraction, and spreading yourself too thin. And so I appreciate you bringing that up, I was getting a visual of, you know, that method of paying down debt. So let’s say I have three, yeah, let’s say I have three loans that I’m trying to pay back. And those you know, are in this in this story, those are the priorities, you know, and I can either put, I have a set amount, which is the energy and that set amount that I can pay towards my debts each month. And I can either put a little bit on each one, or I can go all in on one and really make progress on that one, knock it out, like you said, smooth things out. And then you can move on to the next and really, and how satisfying to check that off your


Tamara  23:22  

list. Okay, it’s so good and all and all the while, especially when it comes to for example, with the with the loans, you’re still doing the minimum deposits on the other one. So it doesn’t mean that like everything else in your business stops, you’re just doing enough to keep it standing. And to keep things as smooth as they can be over there. But like 90% of your energy is going towards your priority. Because that’s how you grow. That’s how you grow. And that’s how you don’t lose all your hair in the process. Because it’s so stressful. And when you have like this ongoing list and you have 17 different balls in the air, and it’s just you or like you and your right hand just handling all of this becomes chaotic, and you don’t want chaos in your your business. You don’t want that you just want peace and to have like clear direction. Leaders love clear direction. Leaders love accountability. So if you can hold yourself accountable to one priority, and you have clear direction on that priority, everything else will fall into place.


Yasmine  24:20  

I’m here for it, which I feel is a great segue to the third one. Yes,


Tamara  24:26  

yeah. So the third mistake that I see time and time again is over complication of systems. So we have been sold this beautiful tale of like a 13 step onboarding system and the more systems you have, the more legit your business is and systems are sexy and blah, blah, blah, and like I love I’m a Systems person. I love systems. I love standardization. Systems are boring. Systems are boring. That’s the point of them. It’s to get you to a point Need to point B as quickly as possible, as efficiently as possible and as predictably as possible? Yeah, and that’s an it doesn’t have to be a 13 step process. It doesn’t have to be I’m giving you permission for it to be a if your onboarding system is send the contract, send the invoice, send the welcome email slash client gift and schedule a call, like the off the onboarding call, that’s perfect. That’s a perfect system, that’s a perfect four step system that is consistent and all of your clients get a consistent experience. Because when it starts looking like send an email, then send the invoice, then send three emails with three different questionnaires. And then we need to send flowers and then we need to send them chocolates. And then we need to hop on three different calls with three different people like it just becomes a lot. And I’ve seen that before. And not even just like on onboarding, but even the delivery piece, the more you can simplify, the easier business gets, the easier it is to scale. So if you do have a product suite of like 17 different products, and they all have their own very unique onboarding and delivery system, it’s going to be very hard to scale. Same with service based entrepreneurs, if you customize every single client contract that comes through the door, that’s great. But it’s going to be very difficult to scale and to keep track of things. And to bring someone on as a support team member in the delivery of your products and not confuse them. And I made this mistake I used to customize absolutely everything. And it was fine. When I was just it was just me and I was so low. And it all lived in here. When I would bring in a client a team member, they’d be like, so we do this for this client, but not for this one. Why? And I’m not going to sit there for like an hour and explain like, well, they’re paying for these amount of hours in this tier. And this very specific like rubric that I have. It’s easier to stand.


Yasmine  27:00  

I’m laughing because we’re the same person. Yeah. We just


Tamara  27:06  

it feels like you’re it feels legit. When you’re acting crazy in your business, like in your like this and that. And it


Yasmine  27:14  

doesn’t feel crazy when you’re in it, though. No,


Tamara  27:16  

because it’s you. It’s like, I’m like, this is a reflection of the chaos that happens in here. But this isn’t what everyone wants. Or like what the business needs, especially like you having like your own brands like it’s no longer about, yes, it’s about the business. It’s about your clients, it’s about your team. It’s not about what you want to do anymore. It’s about what’s the market saying that they need for me. And it’s definitely some it’s as simple as that you don’t have to overcomplicate things. You truly don’t You don’t have to overcomplicate something as simple as market research, you can throw up a poll on Instagram, and that can be your market research. It doesn’t have to be like the super specific form that you create that then you have to send an email and a follow up email, it can just be a question that you ask someone that’s as simple as that can get. So my biggest thing is, the simpler that you get, the easier it is to scale. Because when you overcomplicate things, and you have 13 Different tech software’s that you’re using to complete, you know, two or three tasks. Yeah, it’s such a headache. And it’s so hard to clean up later, when you are making money. And you do have 3040 clients and you do have a team. And then everyone’s just scrambling trying to find things when you can just have easily hosted everything and like one or two different software’s, with a few different systems and automation in place. So yeah, that’s that really city is it, I can talk about this all day, like just so so you can be just be simple, just please like, peel back the onion and just get to the center of things and just keep it very, very easy for yourself. Because you’re gonna thank yourself down the line in the beginning, we want to fill up our time and our calendar because it’s just like, I have my business and I need to be busy. I mean, first off, you don’t but that’s like a whole other thing.


Yasmine  29:06  

But that’s a whole other conversation. That’s a conversation.


Tamara  29:10  

But Second off, you need to leave space in order to fill that space up with clients. So if you’re busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, and then you get all these clients, and you still are busy busy, then that’s how you have a 1314 16 hour work day. And that’s not thank you. That’s not sustainable. You can’t live like that either.


Yasmine  29:29  

Yeah, no, no, absolutely. Yeah. I’m a proponent of whitespace in the calendar. Love the whitespace definitely a proponent of receiving help and being open to receiving support. I imagine you can relate not just because of your line of work, but also being a new mom like that has. That was the eye opening experience for me because it was I was still I was just a couple years like three years into entrepreneurship by that point, and was still doing a lot myself. You You know, it wasn’t I didn’t have this huge team. But once I big was pregnant, and I couldn’t physically do all the things in my life, and I had to accept help from those hurt, you know, in my personal life, and then I had my child still had to accept help from people in my personal life. And then also, on the business side, I had to be open to receiving more support. And once I stopped resisting it so much, I was that person you were describing early on, it’s like, Why did I wait so long?


Tamara  30:29  

I was that person. And I do this for other people. And I would like people out and be like, Why are you hiring? Took me getting pregnant with my daughter to hire, consistent support and my business. And then like, after I made my first hire, I was like, This is freaking great. And now we have a team addicted and I was like, I’m How can I hire more? How can I give people more money to do other things in my business, so I can have more whitespace? And in that, unlike rest, it’s productive. Conversations and relationship building is productive as the business owner, there’s so many other things that you could be doing that are so productive, and overflow your cup. Total, that way it overflows onto your team and your clients. Just because you don’t have a you know, calendar full of calls every single day. That doesn’t it’s not a signifier of success or not being successful. There’s so many other things I can find work for y’all. Like if you guys


Yasmine  31:25  

Oh, yeah, I can easily fill a calendar,


Tamara  31:29  

yeah, we can find work for you Don’t worry, there’s always something else to do, there’s always something else to do. And also, when we have too much time, we create more stuff. It’s like, oh, this offer feels really juicy. Or oh, I want to host this free training or oh, I want to do that. And you just get your creative juices back and your passion comes back. And that way you can serve even more and a higher capacity because now you have the support to scale and support it. So


Yasmine  31:55  

it’s you already know, I’m here for all of this. And I am so grateful to you tomorrow for joining us and for inspiring us for sharing some of your insights in your work in this space and supporting your clients and I am just so grateful to you. Thank you.


Tamara  32:14  

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been so fun.


Yasmine  32:16  

Yes it really has thank you for being here. And if you enjoyed this episode, you can connect with us on Instagram @coachesandcompany. Tamara I know you hang out on Instagram all of your links and all that good stuff will be in the description of this video. But where’s your is that your primary hang out? Yeah, I


Tamara  32:34  

pretty much hang out on Instagram, Instagram Stories, my jam. So @tamaramunozwhilden That’s a long name. So just go to the to the links below again,


Yasmine  32:42  

again, I can definitely relate. All of that will be in the description of this video or in the show notes of this audio. If you’re listening to the audio feed. Thank you again tomorrow for joining me, and I’ll talk to you soon. Yes, bye bye


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