Ariel Schiffer: Designing Your Digital Course Like a Pro

In this interview, I chat with the Founder & CEO of Dreampro, Ariel Schiffer. Ariel’s course creation agency offers expertise and top-tier support in creating courses and programs for digital educators and coaches. Dreampro’s mission is one close to our hearts: to improve the quality of education and offerings in the online space. You know we’re here for it!

This conversation with Ariel focuses on:

⚡️The Importance of Your Unique Perspective

⚡️Using Strategic Analysis to Understand Your Ideal Client

⚡️When to Update Your Course Post-Launch

Links & Resources

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      💛 Yasmine & Team Coaches & Co.


Yasmine  0:02  

Hello, Hello friends and welcome to do business better. 2022. I’m your host Yasmine Salem Hamden. And I’m so excited to be here today with Ariel Schiffer. Ariel is the founder and CEO of dream pro course creation Agency, and the founder of the dreamers, lounge podcast. Ariel during our agency has supported over I was when I saw this number, I was like, okay, yeah, that is some experience. And you have seen some things and my friend, over 200 clients, is that correct? Yeah, yeah, that’s incredible. And I can’t wait to hear all about that. Ariel, you and I share in our mission to improve the quality of education in the online space, and the quality of offerings, courses, programs, really elevating the industry that we are a part of, that we so dearly love, and enjoy supporting in. And I’m really, really ecstatic to bring this conversation to our listeners and our viewers today. It’s, it’s just a space within this industry, in terms of course, creation. I mean, that space within our industry, is has grown so much in recent years, and there’s just their infinite possibilities ahead of us, and just so much room for growth. And I’m just pumped to have you here to share what kind of mistakes you were seeing people make as it as it relates to you. And when it comes to creating your first course, or creating a new course, maintaining your course marketing your course, validating your ideas. I mean, there’s so much that goes into creating a course successfully, and putting it out into the world. And so I’m, I’m pumped, I’m pumped. So tell us for those that have not had the pleasure of meeting you and learning about you tell us about you and what you’re all about. Yeah, so


Ariel  2:01  

hello, I’m so excited to be here. As you mentioned, I’m founder and CEO of dream Pro, and we are a course creation agencies. So a lot of people tell me, Oh, my gosh, I didn’t know people like you existed. I wish I knew about you when I was creating my course. And, you know, I come from a background of about 10 years, of course, creation. So I’ve been doing this for quite some time. You know, for the first eight years of which I was in the corporate world, and I was developing professional leadership development programs for all different types of companies. So fortune 50 companies, nonprofit organizations, private companies, alike, you name it, I’ve probably worked in that industry in some way, shape, or form. And, and so I’ve always loved it, I’m very creative person. And, you know, I was doing that for quite some time and then realized, you know, I want to do things on my own, like a lot of people who start their businesses. And so I ended up joining, or I guess, like joining this online business world, I guess you could say, as a coach, it was a career coach, you know, being in the HR function, people constantly came to me for their careers, so something was very comfortable with. And then I soon realized, wow, to your point, like, everybody has courses, this is wild, and they’re like, selling them for hundreds or 1000s of dollars. And so I just remember, when I first joined this industry, I was like, This is crazy, like, what is going on. And it was just so interesting. And naturally, you know, starting my business, I purchased some courses on, you know, myself, and soon realized, okay, there’s a lot of courses out here, but there’s also a lot of people that like, don’t really know what they’re doing. And that was kind of the aha moment, I needed to say, okay, the things that I’ve been doing for the past eight years in my corporate life can definitely be leveraged here. And so, you know, spent the past two and a half, almost three years really working on how to bring my expertise from the corporate world into this space, because it is actually very different in a lot of different ways. And so you know, our agency, we help our clients develop courses for them. And you know, even though these, this is a done a free project, and we’re working with them and doing as much as we possibly can. For them, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work on both ends. And you know, especially when we’re creating something that really becomes the vision and sometimes even the primary income stream for our business owners, it’s really important for us to get it right and to make sure that we’re doing things that really aligned to the Creator. So that is, I guess, long story short, a little bit about me and what we do,


Yasmine  4:42  

absolutely, yes. Oh, I am here for all of that. I love this transition from your traditional career, corporate career into serving entrepreneurs and other people that have that same drive as you to you know what I’m I’m just gonna I do my own thing, when you describe working with people across all different industries, and in the traditional corporate setting, and then making that decision, you know what I’m going, I want to do this on my own, I’ve identified a need. And I’ve identified an audience and a community of people that one need my help. And to that I can see myself enjoying and I have enjoyed working with that was really the big driver for me too, is I’ve worked with so many different clients in my law practice, and from all different industries. And then when I began to meet more individuals in the digital in the space of digital entrepreneurship, selling services online, creating digital products, selling courses, marketing, digitally, filling these programs, I mean, it was just out, it was so fun, fun. And the people that I was meeting, they were very positive and enthusiastic, and I am, I highly value enthusiasm. If you’re not excited about what you’re doing, it’s going to be


Ariel  6:00  

really hard for me. The same thing I you know, in the corporate world, I feel like you work with so many people that, you know, to be honest, or they’re out of obligation, or they’re, you know, they’re just focused on their job there, they’re really narrow minded, or just, you know, hyper focused on what they’re doing. And especially in like the learning and development world, you know, of course, I’ve worked with people that were interested in growing their skills and developing themselves, but a lot of corporate training is also teaching employees and making them basically, you know, take these trainees, for the sake of checking the box versus, you know, in this industry, people are spending their own money to purchase these courses, because they have a genuine interest in it. And so it’s cool to work on projects where, you know, people are excited to take the course versus trying to figure out how to get people through it. But funny, funny enough, those strategies are still really important, because, you know, even in this industry, not every course, is completely taken. But yeah, I think for sure, I agree with, like, it’s fun to work with the creators and the founders themselves, because they’re so passionate about what they want to teach and what they want to bring to the world and how they want to impact people. So it’s like such a night and day from, you know, like, working in an organization that has, you know, a crap ton of layers and political tape and all the things so, yeah, it’s, it’s definitely a lot a lot more fun and fast moving to,


Yasmine  7:26  

for sure. Oh, yes. So fast moving. And there are no rules, there are no traditions, you know, there’s, there’s no one right way of doing things, which is why there’s so much room for error. And I guess, I guess that opens up, you know, the, the idea of is there such thing as a mistake that can be made a business, there’s so many different approaches that you can take so many different strategies, and many different philosophies that you can hold as it relates to business, and how you structure your business, how you design your business, how you develop your offerings, and how you serve your clients and your customers. So let’s hear these three mistakes, these three top mistakes that you’re seeing course creators make what is number one?


Ariel  8:12  

Number one, so I number one is really important. And it’s so important that I’m literally developing an entire workshop around it. It is not having the right topic, or one that really leans into your unique perspective or philosophy. And what I mean by that is, you know, a lot of people come into this industry, or people who have been here for quite some time think to themselves, Oh, you know, the course industry is just so oversaturated everybody has, of course, there’s so many courses. And yes, there are a ton of courses, but it’s definitely not oversaturated. And there’s definitely still opportunity for you know, any new creator to come into this space. Like, if you really look at things from a macro level, like it’s, it’s just getting started. And so when you think about how our world is changing with current events, and the way that people are working differently, people are making money differently, people are learning differently and developing their skills differently. It’s not oversaturated. But since there’s so many people that do have courses, it’s extremely important for you to make sure that your topic and your philosophy is on point. And what I mean by that is, you know, a lot of people say like the riches are in the niches and I agree, you know, I think there’s a time and a place for the general programs that help with a lot of things. But honestly, the more specific you can get about what you’re teaching who you’re teaching, and also with that what your perspective is and what makes your your view on this different than other people’s is going to be your differentiator, it’s gonna make you stand out because people want to learn from somebody where they understand what they’re about, what they’re about to get themselves into, and they feel like that person is a credible person But they know their stuff. And that they understand, you know, kind of what their vibe is. Because if you think about these, you know, wildly successful programs, like it is always backed by somebody who knows their stuff, they have a very specific topic, but you know what they’re about. So for instance, for me, like, I’m not teaching you how to make a course in a weekend, right? That’s not my program, promise, that’s not anything that’s ever in my marketing. So people know, okay, when they think of Arial, they think of innovation, high quality instructional design, like these are things and parts of my messaging that, you know, resonate with the people that I want to be around. And so when you can really lean into what makes your perspective, the one that you’re going to lead with, and you can be really specific about that, it’s going to attract the people that you want to teach in your program. So to reiterate, number one is not having the topic that is specific enough, or really leans into, like, what your perspective is.


Yasmine  10:59  

love the emphasis on you as the instructor, because that’s so important. I mean, that impacts and influences the entire, not just the course, but the experience of the student. And we see this a lot in the digital space as far as personal brand being highly tied to that offering. Right. So, you know, it’s as the instructor, you’re not just, you know, another professor at a university, you are the university. Yeah, exactly. It is you, you are the entire institution.


Ariel  11:36  

Yeah, I actually love that metaphor. Because if you think about it, like when people are choosing where to go to college, right? They’re not necessarily like they’re looking at the university, and what’s the reputation behind it? What are they known for? What is your view on x? Right? So it’s the exact same thing. And, you know, when people are looking at learning or taking a course, there’s a lot of things that are specific to, you know, adult learners, when you think about like adult learning theory, one of which is like, what’s in it for me, right? Like, why should I care? Why should I be taking this course. But another thing is, like, why should I learn from you? Why, what, why out of all the courses, I need to learn from you, right? And so to be able to communicate that and sometimes let that even be your differentiator is extremely powerful. And, you know, it’s something that I think a lot of people don’t sometimes even brag about, but as much as they should, in terms of like, what makes them qualified. And I get it, because it’s sometimes really difficult for me to like, you know, list my qualifications or talking about myself sometimes in that way. But it makes a world of a difference, especially when they’re not going to be, you know, potentially working with you one on one, they really want to have that credibility there if they’re going to be taking something pre recorded or something where they won’t be able to really like tap into you. Right? So it’s just another way to also build trust with people.


Yasmine  12:58  

Yes, all of that. And another consideration is, you are not this is not your one and done. situation, if you’re for most people at least, right? Yes, there are some people that are just get rich quick, I’m just gonna make this one person. I don’t know how other people think like that. I really hope not. But somebody that’s


Ariel  13:18  

listening to this.


Yasmine  13:23  

Out here and establishing your brand, whether it’s a standalone, personal brand, your brand as an authority figure, as an educator, as a leader, a thought leader in your industry, either one, the course that you’re creating now, or the course that you created last year, whenever that’s not your you’re wanting the one hit wonder, right, we’re not going for the one hit wonder. It’s the the ecosystem offerings, you know, and so those that are looking to learn from you in the course setting, they may decide to work with you one on one because it’s you. Yeah, not just because there are tons of people to learn from as it relates to any topic.


Ariel  14:05  

Yeah, I can’t even tell you how many times like, I’ve had people that take our course. And like our course is it used as like a funnel to or done for you services by any means, because it’s usually like, nobody really needs to take a course before they invest in us. But there are some people that literally go into the course and they’re like, Okay, I definitely don’t want to do all this. I can see an example of what you guys do. And so I want to work with you further, right? Or I’ve had people that have taken the course and then they’ve referred other futures done for your clients to me, which is really cool. And so, you know, you can’t I just made a post about this, you can’t make a first impression twice, right? And so when you are creating your course and you’re selling this to people, and especially because so many creators use their courses as parts of their funnels to get them into other programs or services or whatever, it’s so important to make sure that they feel like their investment was worth it. And if this is a taste and a glimpse, you know, they’re going to look at this As an example of the other things that you offer, right, if she does this in this way, then I’m sure she does this in all these other ways, right? So, you know, it’s not about just making a quick buck and getting things out there as soon as possible and making, you know, quick cash. Even though, you know, sometimes things are meant to be a little bit messy when you put them together. And that’s also okay, too. But you know, long term, think about okay, what kind of impression do you want to leave on people and, you know, every, like, this is a small industry, like people talk and you know, if you have something that’s really like, hitting the market, people feel like, oh, man, this like, really, you know, did not meet my expectations. Like, there’s going to be a conversation one way or another one day. And, you know, it’s, it’s up to you to determine what you want that conversation to be. So, and I will say to like, I think a lot of people in the same breath, a lot of people are hyper critical about like, the things that they do. And I get it, because I think we all are everybody who wants to do a good job. You’re always like, looking at your stuff like, Oh, like this. I mean, yeah. And so in the same breath, I do want to say, like, what I’ve noticed, just from being inside of so many courses, is sometimes people come to me to be like, okay, like, they hired us to redo it, right? So I’m like, I’m not judging you, like, you’re here, because you want to make it better. Like, that’s great. You know, like, let’s just see what we’re starting with. That’s it. And there’ll be like, so like, oh, my gosh, like, I’m so embarrassed, well, wow. But sometimes, of course, can look, it can look on the surface, like, oh, man, this is kind of a mess. But in their content in the way that they’re facilitated, like, you know, they like know, their stuff. They’re so excited. They’re passionate about what they’re doing. And it’s like, you know, at the end of the day, yes, like, everybody wants everything to be aesthetically beautiful, and perfect, and blah, blah. And I think, you know, to some degree, it is important, but just No, like you at your core, like just being good at what you do, and being able to communicate that. But that’s, that’s what matters the most. And so, you know, don’t also don’t be too hard on yourself, and hypercritical, because you know, we do enough that.


Yasmine  17:04  

Exactly. I think that’s something that we all can we all have room for improvement. Yeah. All right. Number two, what is the second Top Mistake? You’re seeing course creators make out here? Yeah,


Ariel  17:18  

I think we jump from idea to let’s do it. And there’s not enough time spent in analysis to really understand the people that you’re helping. And what I mean by that is, you know, a lot of people have a lot of great ideas of, oh, I want to make a course on this or, you know, basically like, I want to develop something that I wish I had years ago, right? That’s an example of how a lot of people approach certain things, which is not wrong. But a lot has changed in the time that you’ve probably been in that scenario. And you’re creating this. And so being able to accurately remember all the things that you were going through and what was going on in the world. And what was going on in the industry at that time is a little bit unreasonable, right. Like, I’m sure you remember a lot about yourself at that point, or even your, you know, what some of your clients or you know, audience members might be experiencing at some point in their life, or business or career, whatever. But those are all just assumptions that everybody is functioning in the way that you think that they are that they’re feeling a certain way. And so it’s important when it comes to analysis is like to look at it like a science experiment, right? Like you make a hypothesis, you have this assumption of like, okay, I’m hypothesizing that people are struggling with this. And they’re experiencing that and they feel this way. And it’s up to you to do some analysis to prove yourself right or see if there’s things that you’re just not seeing. And it’s not about your ego. And it’s not about trying to be right, but it’s just about really critically looking at things from a neutral perspective of like, do my audience members actually prioritize this? What have they tried, that they haven’t tried? Or what have they tried? That’s not working before? How do they feel about this? How much are they willing to spend on an experience that would have these things? How much do they value this? Where are they in terms of their competency? Like, what have they tried? What have they failed? Why has it failed? You know, those are just some examples of questions. But it’s, the more you can identify and understand the people that you’re trying to help, the stronger your content is going to be in your course, the stronger your messaging is probably going to be in terms of your marketing, the more you’re going to be able to connect with people and actually get them into your world. And so when you really understand people and continuously do this to like, I was just telling you that my course has been around for a couple of years, but I just recently did market research again, I do it like every few months and because things change people change the environment, the audience that I have changes. And so when I put out market research, there was actually a an overwhelming response of people that were like, one of the biggest things that I struggled with for my course is accountability to actually get it done. And that actually wasn’t a huge thing a couple of years ago that I saw I was actually asked the same exact questions just to see the differences too. And this time, it was overwhelming. And so what I did was instead of me looking at that and saying, like, Oh, dang, I wasn’t expecting that, whatever. I was like, Okay, how can I fill this this need this gap? How can I address one of the biggest things that is blocking people from getting what they want. And so now I have that as a part of my program as a part of my messaging. And it’s going to help me help them even better. So take time to learn, because they’re going to also take a lot of the guesswork out of out of it for you, like, instead of you trying to think of how to help people, like, have them help help you. You don’t, I mean, like, look at them as an extension of your team, at that point, like doing market research is a great way to just understand people better, it’s gonna make your ideas even stronger. And you’ll actually feel like you’re going out there with a plan that makes sense versus something that you’re just like, hoping works out.


Yasmine  20:54  

There’s no reason to be out here making guesses. There’s no reason for that. You, you nailed it, Ariel, and you said, it’s all about understanding people. Yeah. And then your people understanding the people that you are wanting to help and that you intend to help by weight of your course and putting that information out into the world. Yeah, yeah, I’ll have to eat that. It always comes. I feel like everything comes down to two people, doesn’t it?


Ariel  21:23  

Yeah. And when you’re like, so intentional about what you’re doing. And like, if you’re going through, let’s say, every part of the process, of course creation, thinking about that person, that’s going to be on the other end of it, you’re going to create something incredible, and it’s going to feel so customized to them, right. And so the more niche that you get in terms of who you’re helping, and the more you understand them, the easier it is going to be for you to make decisions and for you to create something that they really feel like, oh, my gosh, this was the perfect solution for me.


Yasmine  21:52  

It can’t making assumptions is not it is I’ve been there. And


Ariel  22:02  

literally pouring 200 hours into a project just based on what you’re hoping is gonna work out is probably not the best use of time. It’s not


Yasmine  22:10  

we are huge proponents of market research over here we are actually, we have a survey actively going on, and we do it on a quarterly at least semi annual basis. I mean, just especially being in this industry, especially if you are educated as it relates to business or marketing or technology or, you know, we’re talking about crypto and NF T’s and anything that is a an emerging technology and emerging industry. Immature, or, you know, early in the early days of that industry, the changes can be turbulent. Can you click? We were talking about it too is you know, there, there have been definitely been times where I took a course in the messaging was the marketing messaging was, you know, sounded good. But once I got into the contact that I’m like, This is not addressing at all what? Yeah, I was under the impression that they would be addressing. So maybe that goes to another topic. as well. There’s so much to discuss as it relates to offer development and course development, adult learning, as you mentioned. So I think, well, let’s hear number three, what’s your number three, I know good conversation will come with this too. Yeah.


Ariel  23:31  

So the third one is, another mistake is not updating their course on a regular basis. So creating it and saying, Okay, it’s done, it’s passive, it’s in the world, and then never addressing it again. And I was just telling you before, especially when you’re marketing your courses, something that has lifetime access, I feel like you have an obligation to the people who purchase your product for the lifecycle that you’re going to be selling this product, keep your course updated. And so just some tips for that, as well as I usually recommend every six months doing some sort of update. So and that’s a general like timeframe depending on what your industry is, and what your course is on. So for example, if you have a course that’s like, here’s how to use dubsado, you’re probably going to need to update it a little bit more frequently than every six months because tech changes so frequently, right? So, you know, depending on what your subject matter is, you know, it might vary over time, but just keeping it top of mind of of okay, what is changing in the world, or the way that I function or what my philosophy is, and how can I make sure that my product is is maintained and up to date. Even as I’m like planning for this event that we’re doing, there was like a few things that we created and I was like, Oh my gosh, I need to add this to the course like this would be perfect in here. So it’s like, you know, just always thinking about how can you also address because as as amazing as it might be to, you know, create your course and do it in a really you know, one In full way, and, you know, put everything together, naturally over time, all courses need to be updated content is going to have to be added, removed, changed. And so, you know, nobody wants to go into a course and then seeing themselves like, Okay, this is completely outdated, or Wow, I can’t use this entire module because none of this makes sense anymore. And so it’s really your obligation and your duty to make sure that you’re on top of it. And people appreciate that, you know, and it’s something that doesn’t go unnoticed. Because, especially, you know, like, so many people, they say, oh, you know, your ROI is you’re gonna, you’re gonna be able to use this over and over again, well, then prove that and make sure that they actually can. Because otherwise, it’s like, virtually useless. And usually, if I’m going in something, and it feels like things are really outdated, it’s also going to deter them from continuing taking the course. Because if they’re thinking to themselves, like this isn’t been updated, like, why should they take it any further, right? Everybody’s always looking for an excuse to be distracted and do other things. So don’t give them another one.


Yasmine  26:02  

For sure. Yes. Oh, I have so many thoughts on this. So I’ve definitely been there in terms of I enrolled in a course. It’s been so long since I enrolled in a course actually, and I think we talked about this, you and I have like we we both have gone through a period of not yet. Yeah, like that. Not the season of education. But there is certainly there have been seasons where I enrolled in a lot of courses, and I was looking to enhance existing skills, get up to speed on other things that I have not learned in college or in law school. So it’s like, okay, yeah, my education into my own hands and making that investment heading into a course and finding that it’s not up to date, or it’s outdated information, information, no longer applies is useless to me, one thing that you’re going to experience is an increase of refund requests. And no, yeah, we don’t want to deal with that. We also want to carry ourselves and operate in an ethical way. So making sure that what we are marketing, in terms of what they can expect within the course is actually accurate. Yeah, and then, you know, from from the standpoint of regularly updating it in order to accurately reflect your business and brand, you know, you’re evolving to as a company, and as a brand. And so it’s been years since you launched a course, or if a lot has changed within your company, and who it is that you are creating this content for that all that all needs to be updated, which I’m, I imagine people feel out of alignment, when that


Ariel  27:38  

is the case. You know, it’s funny, one of my very, very first client’s, Katie, who’s my CFO, actually, she, I did her like original course, like, almost three years ago, and it was actually a revamp at the time. And so we redid it, and we actually just redid it again. And a lot of the actual content itself didn’t change. But the way that she teaches the way that she markets herself, the way that she helps people is completely transformed. So even though there were a lot of things that we carried over, the way that she facilitated, the program was different, like, everything about it was just a completely different vibe. And it was, you know, it was funny, because when we’re going through that process, she’s like, you know, maybe a lot doesn’t need to be changed. And I was like, to be honest, like, I think a lot more needs to be changed than you think. And so as we were going through it, she was just like, yeah, I basically need to redo everything. I was like, Yeah, we’re not like, like, let’s pretend that never existed. And whatever content we can take, we will but like, you know, not that it was bad. It definitely wasn’t bad at all, it was a really solid program, but it just didn’t align with the messaging of everything else that she had. And so, you know, as annoying as it is like, and I know how quickly things can change in our businesses, it’s like, make sure that your messaging is also always so aligned in terms of like how you educate people, because that’s also why they’re buying stuff from you. So like, if people purchased like her course, from her, like, from a few years ago, they would probably go into it and be like, Oh, that’s interesting. She usually talks about this differently on our podcast or something, like there’s just a difference in the way that she that she, you know, teaches on stuff. So I think it’s important to recognize that as well. And also in that same breath, like know that because I’ve actually recently completely changed my philosophy on a few different things. foundationally, like personal and professional, that I believed and I just want to give everybody like the the permission, they never needed for me to like, grow and change because also like, there are a few things that I remember I used to say at the beginning of my business of just like core like fundamental things that I believed in and I’ve actually changed a lot of, of what those things are over time and it doesn’t make me any less qualified or credible or whatever. It’s just like, you know, go go with where you’re growing. You know what I mean? Like, go with it. And it’s okay. And it’s okay to change your mind or, or to have an experience and say, You know what I used to teach on this. But after that it’s really making me relook at that, you know, I think it’s an admirable thing to do and to be able to share that with people too.


Yasmine  30:14  

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you are a different person than you were four years ago. Yeah, two years ago, that you have experienced so much in terms of life and business between then and now, even if that was a month ago, you know, that during that month, you may have come into new information, you may have faced a new challenge, you may have been through a different experience that through that you are gaining a different perspective or a deeper perspective, an alternative? I mean, I absolutely agree. I agree, you know, we can we can hold our positions that hold our philosophies very strongly. But we have to hold them loosely, in the event that we come into different information and not let our egos get in the way, or feel that we will be viewed as wishy washy. In fact, I think it’s a very it’s of integrity, in my opinion, too. To move in that way.


Ariel  31:15  

Yeah, keep it fresh. And, and, and take people along with you, too. I think it’s, it’s nice when people like, it’s interesting to hear other educators and people that I learned from in terms of like, oh, I used to teach it this way. But what I’ve noticed was this, and now I teach it that way. And it’s like, it brings people along on the decision making journey too. And I think, you know, that’s such an important part of any type, of course, are learning experiences teaching people how to think for themselves, and not just how to copy and paste and follow this formula. But like, you know, this is another this is your bonus. fourth mistake is assuming that people live in a world and they’re going to follow your framework step by step, and everything that you say is going to happen is going to happen. Because the reality is like 1% of people actually got the perfect world. And so what you can do to help people still be successful in their imperfect lives, which is, you know, imperfect in quotes, it’s, it’s a perfectly fine thing is just to give them the decision making skills, so that way, when they’re looking at your framework, and they’re like, Okay, that would work perfectly for somebody like that. But you know, I’m kind of like, you know, in this boxer, I don’t really necessarily fully fit into that. So you don’t want to be too exclusive in terms of the way you teach, because not everybody is gonna fit into the perfect, you know, parameters that you set and in most scenarios, so if you can show people, not just the the How to or the, the what you’re teaching, but like the why and the why you do it this way. And also just addressing the fact that not everybody is going to be in the perfect scenario, people will also be able to relate to that content more, but you’re going to be empowering them to also make decisions on their own. Because ultimately, that’s what you’re trying to do is like, set people up for success. So they can like, be free and take it and run with it and not have to rely on you. You know, that’s that’s kind of the goal. Hopefully, I’ve ever every coach is to like, set people up. So they’re better off without you.


Yasmine  33:14  

Oh, absolutely. And specifically, when it comes to creating a course and educating in the context of a course, I mean, the objective here is to relay the information and the resources and the tools that the student needs in order to apply that to take action and apply it because completing the course, doesn’t mean you don’t really move forward, just sitting and watching the video. Okay, we now we know this information, but providing them with also that context within which they can apply the information that they’re learning and the resources you’re providing them with. And that way, you know, like you said, they can be better off. Yeah, after that course, and that they’re not necessarily tied to you or you are not so directly influential of the outcome that they could potentially achieve. Yeah,


Ariel  34:04  

yeah, yeah. And don’t be afraid to also like coach people away from you. Like I, I’ve had a few clients that I’ve spoken to or in scenarios where people were just like, hyper dependent on them and asking them a billion questions. And there could be a lot of root causes of that. But, um, you know, I think just in general, as an educator, it’s thinking, you know, always that mentality of like, How can I help this person learn how to fish so that way, they don’t keep coming back to me. And, you know, it’s important, I think, we’re all trying to always be so helpful and provide everybody exactly what they need, but there’s no there’s no perfect template for life or business, you know, and that’s reason it’s a good thing.


Yasmine  34:46  

The good thing Yes, it really is a good thing. And that reminds me of that that first mistake you mentioned in terms of going back to basics on you know, selecting that right topic not getting specific enough you know, getting so specific to where people are able to opt out of this, they’re not talking to me. And you can dissuade others from that are not ideal that are not the type of person that you are designing this course for, you know, to sort of to maintain that distance and avoid situations like you’re describing where they are either hyper dependent or dissatisfied or incapable of applying the information that you’re relaying to them. Like, because it’s just not the right fit.


Ariel  35:32  

No, and I see, you know, a lot of people have on their sales pages, like, who this course is for who it’s not for it and like, I hate when, like when it says like, who it’s not for, it’s like somebody who doesn’t want to grow. Like instead of putting all those like, you know, demeaning things like be honest, like who really isn’t, you know, what I mean? Like recipt does not need to be for everybody. So if you’re like, you know, if you’re unable to dedicate at least three hours a week to this, this isn’t for you, like be a fee upfront about like, what the qualifications are. So that way people don’t feel blindsided, once they’re in the program, like you want them to go in and feel like this is where I belong versus like, What the hell did I just buy? So, you know, it’s not about making like the cutesy language like it, the more straightforward you are, and the more specific they feel you’re being, the more you know, the more likely they are to join. You know, I recently signed up for a conference, and I’ve seen so many different like, conferences, retreats, all the things, and I signed up for this one specifically, because it was it spoke to agency owners, and everything was like very, it was so niched to like my life. And I was like, you know, gosh, this is perfect for me, right? I haven’t found an opportunity like that. So same thing for your course, like people want to feel like, oh, man, she’s talking straight to me. Like, you know, this isn’t going to be some general thing. Because, you know, everybody wants to see the specialist before, you know, instead of the generalist, right, when it comes to their problems.


Yasmine  36:57  

Oh, for sure. How exciting. Is it when you’ve read something that’s speaking directly to you, I think as humans very excited.


Ariel  37:07  

Yeah. I think as business owners, too, we’re like, oh, this is good. You know, like, Oh, you got it, right. Like this is this is spot on. But it’s, it’s exciting. And then and then it becomes that thing that like, they can’t like get out of their heads. You know what I mean? Like, I’ve literally because I’m the worst type of buyer, I’m the person that’s like, you know, last call. I’m like, Okay, fine, let’s do it. But, I mean, I was looking at I was I saw this conference, like a month ago, and I just committed to it yesterday. And like, I you know, but it was something that stuck with me because I kept thinking to myself, like, oh, this would be perfect for me, you know what I mean? Whereas sometimes I see offers or courses or whatever, where I’m like, okay, I can see how I kind of fit into this. But this one was like, oh, man, this is like, this is this is this got my soul trapped in it. Go


Yasmine  37:59  

along there. This was designed for me they have for me, because I am the person to benefit from everything that’s about to be served up.


Ariel  38:09  



Yasmine  38:12  

Yeah. In person conferences. I hope you’re traveling there.


Ariel  38:15  

Oh my god. Yeah, it’s, it’s actually in Costa Rica. I’m very excited. Gosh, how fun Have you been? I would have gotten if it was in a shoe box. I’m just like that excited about the lineup. And literally, I was like, oh, cool, added bonus that it’s at this like Lux retreat. But to be honest, like I’m just really excited to be in a room with the all these people. So it’ll be fun.


Yasmine  38:38  

I’m so excited for you. And I want to thank you so much for joining us, Ariel. It’s been such a pleasure in you. And I’m sure all of our listeners and viewers are going to be able to take this information and hopefully avoid making some of these mistakes if they are actively launching their course or if they intend on creating a course the rest of this year or in the new year. Your agency dream pro courses is going to be all the information will be in the description of this video. Where do you guys mostly hang out? Where do you have your podcast? Tell us where where you’re hanging out? Online.


Ariel  39:14  

I’m mostly on Instagram so you can find us @dreamprocourses is our handle. And then in terms of podcasts, the dreamers lounge podcast, that’s my podcast and then our website dream prep. courses.com has


Yasmine  39:27  

everything. All the things I love. Thank you again, Ariel, I so appreciate you. Thank you


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